Comments/Ratings for a Single Item

PL,
from having played this one time, I can already tell you that my negative
evaluation of Garrison is slightly revised. He promotes from Shogi's
'Gold General' to Shogi's 'Lance,' but I now see that the ranged
movement is printed as a dashed line. According to the rule book this
means a ranged move that can leap over its first obstruction if desired.
That partially makes up for the fact that the closer promoted-Garrison
gets to the opponent's side, the fewer squares he is attacking, until
finally he will sit on the end rank completely immobile. The book seems to
confirm this, because it only refers to going off the end of the board with
gulled (pawns) and Navias. The Maseitai are not even mentioned in that
section. I still think Garrison is only worth using in Tandem with the
Gundrill's 'Voice to Call' or Olip's 'Reflection in the Water.'

You might like my games page with Maseitai pictures and comments:
http://www.geocities.com/nemorathwald/Games.htm#naviadrapt

I'm also pleased to report that one of the booster-pack Maseitai (I'm
not sure of the name) is what we like to refer to as a Reflecting Bishop
(see the Piececlopedia). He may bounce off the edge of the board. How
cool!

Garrison is my least favorite piece in the set.

By the way the piece that can bounce off the sides of the board is called
Hansa piece M-023.

One of the pieces that I like in the boosters is Lord Kiggoshi, piece
M-028.  25 gyullas cost.  Power Smart Bomb.  choose a 3x3 area on the
Battlefield and send all battle pieces (even your own) to the Graveyard.

Note: Navia's are immune to all effects.

James,
I didn't know ND had one main creator. His name should be listed on this
website where it says 'inventor: Bandai'! What's his name? Please ask
him on behalf of chessvariants.com, if it's true that ND was inspired by
Tori (Bird) Shogi!

I played this game twice yesterday at the meeting of SEMI-Abstract Gamers.
(South East MIchigan) Most of them basically agree with my position, that
this will increase interest in chess variants. There are young people such
as my brother who never bothered with chess until ND. He loves it.

Brian,
I wish there were some place to ask these questions. I already have
several. Please post your questions to this page so that we can collect
them all in one place.
1. When a Dratp effect or line-over returns a promoted Maseitai from the
graveyard, does it un-Dratp?
2. On the movement compass, if the adjacent square is white but the second
square out is colored yellow (like promoted Troll), does that mean that it
is a leaping move to the second square? Or does the adjacent square have
to be free of obstruction in order for Troll to get to the second square?
3. If a Maseitai movement compass had the Knight move square colored
yellow, would that be a leap over any obstruction? Or would an adjacent
square have to be unobstructed between the start and the destination-- the
way it is in Chinese Chess?
4. Can a Maseitai ever un-Dratp?
5. Can a Maseitai perform a line-over?

1.) Ans: I believe it does un-dratp and I have been playing it that way. 
Otherwise any Maseitai that goes to the graveyard a sacrifice ability,
like Tiny Kiggoshi would not be able to return without immedately
returning to the graveyard.  At my demo at Origins the example I was
shown
of returning a Maseitai from the graveyard was with Tiny Kiggoshi, who
later drapted again and used his ability again.
1b.) Another related question is when Koma uses sealing to return a
Maseitai to the keep/seal, does the returned piece lose its drapt?

4. Can a Maseitai ever un-Dratp? Ans: No, unless another Maseitai's
ability allows this.  Nemchant upon dratping does un-dratp all the other
playing pieces on the board.

5. Can a Maseitai perform a line-over? Ans: No. The rule book only has
rules concerning gulled and Navia pieces.
5b.) When a red Gulled performs a line over does it get the 3 gyullas
movement bonus (in addition to the 10 gyullas or Maseitai returning from
the graveyard)?

More questions:
6.)If you use Gundrill's invoked ability (4 gyullas per turn) this
essentually ends your turn (option exists to move Gundrill prior to
invoking this ability, working similar to the move and dratp). 
Gundrill's ability 'moves' another Maseitai, perhaps Tiny Kiggoshi. 
Does Tiny Kiggoshi's move constitute a real move in that Tiny K could
then drapt in the same turn?  (For now I'm playing that Tiny K could NOT
drapt.)

Great game, but it would be nice to get offical answers to these rules
question from somewhere.

Thanks. Who are you, if you don't mind?
I agree on #1, that's how I've been playing it, otherwise it would be
crazy.
Regarding #6, any dratp effect such as Gundrill or Olip that carries other
pieces is a move done BY the dratping piece, ON the carried piece(s). I
believe the carried piece is passively having something done to it, so it
definitely may not dratp in my opinion.

I almost hate to admit this, but sometimes fairy princesses kick monster
butt. Yesterday, my brother had my back to the wall playing ND, all I had
left was Navia + Pawn. He had several impressive warriors and I almost
conceded.	But he didn't notice I collected all the currency in the game.
He was going to checkmate me on the next move, when I paid everything to
invoke Navia Dratp and that was that. Hell hath no fury like a woman
scorned, I guess. These four huge juggernauts surrounded a fairy princess
and she blew them away in a single stroke... it was rich, I tell you. I
love a game that's full of surprises without resorting to dice.

Matt, my name is Robert Pedroza, now Tek34 on this board.  I entered my
name in my previous post, but it must have been lost in the validation
process.

I agree with you on #6.  I just finished a long game won by Navia Goal.  I
didn't think the Navia Goal win was too likely a scenario, but in long
game with few pieces remaining it becomes much more viable.  I didn't
have enough gyullas or fire power left to eventually dratp my navia, so I
slowly sneaked my Navia forward until I was two moves away from the end
line.  At that point even the dratped Agunilyos (moves like a Queen)
couldn't position itself to stop the end line run.

7.) Chess/Check question:  In Chess, if by moving a piece (other than your
King) you leave your King open to be taken next turn, does your opponent
need to announce that that move would cause checkmate, or can your
opponent simply take your King to win the game next turn?  Because of a
lack of rules concerning the check Navia Dratp I'd like to simply be
consistance with the Chess check/checkmate rules.

The scenario I had in mind is where there are three pieces all in the same
column.  My King (Navia) was on its end line with the dratp Nebguard
(forward Bishop) one space in front of my Navia.  Three spaces in front of
my Nebguard/Bishop was my opponents dratp Agunilyos (Queen).  If the
Nebguard/Bishop moves away diagonally and exposes the King/Navia can the
Agunilyos/Queen simply take the King/Navia for the win?

Robert,
yes, he can take the Navia and win the game.

ND is based not on Chess, but on Shogi. Chess has a rule against any move
that moves or exposes one's King check, but Shogi explicitly does not!
Therefore, the form of draw in which the King has no legal move, does not
take place in Shogi, because it's a game in which you kill the Jewelled
General, not just checkmate him. As I read the rules of Navia Dratp I
looked for rules about moving into check, and since there weren't any, I
believe ND has this in common with Shogi.

Hi Jeremy,

I'm already working on a full-fledged online/play-by-email adaptation for
Navia Drapt, using the Vassal engine (www.vassalengine.org, also
vassalengine at Yahoo Groups), as previously announced on this group.
Thanks to the work that went into designing and building my Tori Shogi
adaptation (the japanese chess variant ND seems to be most closely related
to, and available in the file section of the vassalengine group), it's
coming along nicely, and should be available soon.

One concern is obviously whether or not Bandai would tolerate any such
adaptation. Generally the guidelines at the vassalengine group (which has
been used to adapt a number of miniature/board/wargames for quite a while
now) is that as long as there is no official online version, and you make
it clear that it is only for existing owners of the 'real' game, and
non-profit, it may sneak by.

Also they also generally only include the materials strictly necessary for
actual play, and not any reference material, which you are supposed to own
in physical form anyway. Which leads to my question regarding the cards:
as I understand it (my set should arrive any day now, thanks to the *$#%&
online store I unfortunately ordered it from): the Cards are only used for
reference (about the special powers), but not as actual in-Game play
element? Is that correct?

Of course anybody is welcome to chime in on the above matters.

(P.S.: I'm aware that in order to access the Beta vassalengine modules at
the Yahoo group requires registration as member, and I will try to find a
less cumbersome solution when the ND module is ready)

Jeremy, I plan on painting a few of my unpainted Maseitai pieces too (for
home play use), though I plan on using alternate colors than the
*official* painted versions so that I can still tell them apart.  The
'official' rare, painted Maseitai I would believe are the only pieces
legal to be doubled up (paired with an unpainted version) in your team. 
It doesn't seem like there is any special marking to differentiate the
offically painted pieces versus the unpainted pieces, but there is an ID
number on every figure that seems like it can be used for this purpose. 
So far the only 'official' painted playing pieces I have seen are the 14
Maseitai from the starter sets.  Starter set pieces seem to have a
different set of ID numbers (52604), than the boosters (21704, 41704,
61704).  Since unpainted Maseitai numbered 1-14 are not found in the
boosters, the rare, 'officially' painted Maseitai from Bandai will have
the set of ID numbers from booster pack pieces only.

Has anyone found Navia Dratp playing pieces with other ID numbers than the
ones I listed above?  It would be nice to have a list of which ID numbers
occur in which formats (starter or booster packs) to help confirm if
pieces are officially painted by Bandai or painted by another player or
collector.

I bought both starter sets, and you're right about one thing, all the
pieces in both of them are labeled 52604. It will be interesting to see
what these numbers can tell us.

What do you mean about officially painted pieces? Are you saying your
starter set came with painted pieces? The only painted ones I got were the
Navias. What about the booster packs? They don't come painted, or do they?

From what I've gathered (esp. if it's true that the manual distinguishes
between painted and unpainted Maseitais), they probably include some
'(ultra)rare' painted Maseitais in the booster packs? I wouldn't be
suprised, since this IS a _Collectible_ Miniatures Game, after all.

I would certainly love to see a picture posted, if anyone here has gotten
one in their packs!? Maybe though those are in league with the Yeti and
the Monster of Loch Ness ;)

As for custom painting doubles, I'm definetely looking forward to that, I
used to enjoy it, but have never been able to keep up with huge number of
paintjobs needed for a certain company's game... at least that won't be
a problem in the foreseeable future with ND :)

P.

The 'official' painted pieces from Bandai are chase figures found only in
the Navia Dratp booster packs, and seem to only include Maseitai numbered
1-14 (at least I haven't seen any above this number).  At Origins a staff
member at the Bandai booth told me that these painted figures would be
found only in the booster packs and when building your team you could not
duplicate the same figure within your team, with the exception of using
one unpainted figure and another of the rare, chase, painted figures found
in booster packs. 

The starter packs never have the painted Maseitai, only painted Navia
(though some of the better unpainted Maseitai are found only in the
starter packs).  Navia are always painted and can never be duplicated
within a team.  The starters have Navia N-001 & N-002, while the booster
packs are the only place to find Navia N-003 IO & N-004 Krra.  Hope this
helps.

Much appreciated, Robert!
As announced in my other post, I finally started my first Yahoo group, in
a surge of, erm, enthusiasm (bad pun, you'll see). Like all groups, it
includes also a gallery, and I already created an album for people to put
pictures of their rare captures in ;) 
If you're up to it, you can upload them there (it's easy to register,
for now I have left membership open)

P.

Announcement: Creation of a Yahoo group for people interested in Navia
Dratp
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/navia_dratp_enthusiasts/

I guess I have too much time on my hands ;) One thing I want to be clear
about is that I don't mean that group to be in some sort of competition
with this one, and I think this one will perhaps remain a little more
mature, especially if ND should ever really catch on.

However, the _free_ benefits of the NDE Yahoo group are, as with every
group there: the searchable archive, the free file storage area (which I
set up to include a folder for peoples' tradelists), picture gallery
(for, among others, their own custom paintjobs people have talked about
here) etc. It should be a nice complement to this one.

I also uploaded my Tori Shogi adaptation, which is more easily accessible
since membership is open for now (unlike the Vassalengine group) If
nothing else, it will allow you to test the Vassalengine/Java setup on
your machine if you are interested in trying out the ND adaptation I plan
on releasing in the future.

P.

P_L, what is your approx. time for haveing the online version done? Do you
need any help? I'm a graphic designer by profession, so if you need
anything, like graphics or scanning...anything, let me know.

These are the figures that I have after 2 starters and 6 boosters.
N-1, 2, 4      M-1 through 14, M-16, M-17x2, M-18x2, M-19 through 22
M-24, M-25x2, M-26 through 28, M-29x2

I also have a slight problem with ND now. Its not major, just annoying. I
bought six boosters and I didn't get a single patined figure other than
a
Navia. What is the rare distribution?

Second, and this is good to me, I don't see this game as very
collectible. I almost have the entire set. I am short 3 total with 1 of
those being a Navia, which I could care less about. And since you can't
duplicate unless one of those is a rare painted, there is really no other
figure I need or want. As long as you get one, which you can probably
pick
up on ebay now for like 2-5 bucks. Ebay will eliminate buying boosters
for
me now. After buying the boosters this first time, and seeing a few figs
that I won't use, I'll just buy the ones I want on ebay. I think the
cost of keeping up with this game will be very low considering how many
actual figures there will be in each set. This starting one only has like
33 total pieces - very low count. An there are a few that I wouldn't
mind
getting rid of.

Hi Jeremy,
I managed to get the main structure of the game finished, but the most
time-consuming part will be a couple of board element scans and especially
taking digipics of the pieces, since I will finally receive my own set
tomorrow. Unfortunately, I'll have a couple of really busy days ahead of
me, but depending how things go, I might get around to it by Sunday, so
perhaps in the evening, otherwise it'll be maybe a couple of days later
at most.

As far as trading goes, you might try the Yahoo group I set up, maybe the
few members so far will be interested in trading directly too, and
hopefully trustworthy enough. I admit that personally I have little
experience in the matter, but would think that trading one for one any
piece of the same rarity as per Bandai's list (?) should be fairly
straightforward...

P.