Comments/Ratings for a Single Item

I'm interested in this game. I never got very familiar with the previous version so I'm wondering, what exactly is different here, and why? Also, is the game courier preset up-to-date?

After all the ups and downs over 3+ years and a much needed break, I can finally say with certainty that Suzumu Shogi is done, except for maybe the rules for prevemting Fire Demon trading. The main changes are as follows:

• The initial setup is different compared to the version you played (you can delete that game if you want).
• The Heavenly Tetrarch now has the Fire Demon's burning ability in addition to its original move.
• The Fire Demon and Heavenly Tetrarch cannot be burned.

The GC preset is up to date. I am planning on removing the old GC piece sets and set groups and uploading new ones once I manage to make contact with Greg Strong and Ben Reiniger.

The GC preset is no longer up to date. I still need to work out the kinks of the contagious promotions.

I have fixed the GC preset's contagious promotions and clarified the rules for contagious promotions as well.

I've been working on reviving this game (and Mitsugumi Shogi), and pretty much everything is done, but I am not sure how I should handle trading of the Fire Demons in these games to keep them exciting. Such rules don't really matter in Tenjiku Shogi, as the Tenjiku Fire Demon burns every adjacent enemy piece every time it moves, and even on the opponent's turn, so you can easily get several pieces for the price of one. In Suzumu Shogi (and Mitsugumi Shogi), the Fire Demon moves like a Free Boar with an additional area move and can optionally shoot one adjacent piece, either without moving or after it stops, and has no passive burn (XBetza: shQshympacabQ(a)2KmcabK(a)2mpacabK). In other words, the Suzumu Fire Demon's burning move is much weaker, potentially requiring rules to conserve it until the very end of the game.

I thought about implementing Chu Shogi-style rules for this, but they don't really work for a piece like the Suzumu Fire Demon. I then thought about implementing Maka Dai Dai Shogi's contagious promotion rules as well, but I worried that it would make the Fire Demons too survivable.

Right now I have a more limited contagious promotion rule in place which only affects direct captures of a Fire Demon or Heavenly Tetrarch from pieces that are not (potential) royals. I also gave the Suzumu Fire Demon's burning ability to the Heavenly Tetrarch. The former ensures that at least one Demon/Tetrarch survives, and the latter makes the Chariot Soldier more dangerous to make up for the weakened burning move. I think these changes work quite well, but I still want an outside opinion on this to make sure I am dealing with this issue the right way.

Right now I have a more limited contagious promotion rule in place which only affects direct captures of a Fire Demon or Heavenly Tetrarch from pieces that are not (potential) royals.

To me, who doesn't know much, that sounds like a good solution.

I think there's a problem with the current preset. The knights aren't able to move sideways or backwards.

I think there's a problem with the current preset. The knights aren't able to move sideways or backwards.

Thanks for catching that. I will fix that right away.

I've decided that the contagious promotions made the Fire Demons too survivable, and instead went with a rule that prevents Fire Demons and Heavenly Tetrarches from burning each other. That way trades can still happen, but it's not super easy to do so. And because of the high number of pieces that promote to these two juggernauts (4 Chariot Soldiers and 2 Water Buffalos per side), and the fact that they start in very survivable positions, there will likely be at least one such piece left when the board is depleted enough that said piece can take advantage of holes in the opponent's defenses.

Now that triple captures other than those of the Lion Dog are supported by the interactive diagram, I am currently testing a new version of Suzumu Shogi, with burning pieces (Fire Demons and Heavenly Tetrarches) that can burn (or capture without moving as in igui) up to two adjacent pieces at once.

I have finalized the double burning version of Suzumu Shogi, and by extension, Mitsugumi Shogi. I might reintroduce the ban on burning pieces with burning moves in the future, but the current version of the diagram does not have the tools needed to do that.

The GC presets are no longer up to date.

..., but the current version of the diagram does not have the tools needed to do that.

I don't know exactly what you have in mind, but it sounds like an antitrade option to specify relative ironhood for a group of piece types for locust-capture only would do it. This would not be hard to implement; just exempt the replacement capture from one of the existing options.

I was thinking banning burning Fire Demons and Heavenly Tetrarches (possibly allowing it if something else is burned first), but allowing these pieces to be captured directly or via igui (the latter which is a locust capture). I tried doing it with the BadZone function used in the last version, and most of the time it worked perfectly, but for some reason the part testing for the evic parameter value would cause the area move (and sometimes non-capture moves) to disappear if two burning pieces were within burning distance of their orthogonal ranging moves. Right now, I am happy with the current version. Fire Demons can still be traded, but at least now it is easier for the moving Fire Demon to grab an additional piece without risking recapture thanks to the strengthened burning ability.

So the problem is that the Tetrarch should not be able to capture another Tetrarch when it lands on a square next to it, but should be able to capture it when it was already standing next to it, without moving? In addition to capturing one other piece?

Yes, (though this extends to burning pieces in general) and the BadZone code from the last version mostly worked (if you include "in addition to burning another piece"), but like I said earlier, the section testing the evic value (the intermedate square) caused parts of the Demon's area move to disappear when they were within one rank of each other, so I decided to just remove the restriction altogether so I didn't have to worry about it. I think I'll wait until the new function that combines BadZone, WeirdPromotion, etc. is finished.

I can make a revision with the BadZone code in it if you want.

Well, I would like to see the BadZone code. But you can just post it as a comment as well.

Here is the BadZone function's code:

function badzoneZone(x2, y2, piece, color, x1, y1, ex, ey) {
  if(touched) return 0; // not during ShowMoves()
  if(piece == 35 || piece == 65 || piece == 66) // Fire Demons and Heavenly Tetrarches
  {
    evic = (ex >= 0) ? board[ey][ex] & 511:-1;  // intermediate square
    if(evic == 35 || evic == 65 || evic == 66) { // Problem area
      if((x1 == x2 && y1 == y2) || (ex == x2 && ey == y2)) return 0; // Allow direct capture or igui
        else return 1; // else reject
      }
    }
    return 0;
  }
}

Eventually I hope to make it so that burning pieces cannot burn each other at all.

You can view a diagram with this function implemented here.

Suzumu Shogi is ready

After some testing, I found that the threat of the Great General capturing one of the Fire Demons was giving Black too big an advantage. So to keep the new range captures under control, the jumping Generals are now subject to the rankings from Tenjiku Shogi (may only jump lower ranking pieces, but no restrictions on final capture). Update coming soon to both the rules page and the GC presets.

After some testing, I have managed to implement an algorithm to implement the Tenjiku ranking system in the interactive diagram. I've also changed the Heavenly Tetrarch's move so that instead of burning, it freezes (immobilizes) all adjacent enemy pieces except other Heavenly Tetrarches. Because of this, the Fire Demon's burning move restriction now only applies to other Fire Demons.

The GC Preset has already been updated, and the Mitsugumi Shogi preset will be updated soon.

I've also changed the Heavenly Tetrarch's move so that it freezes (immobilizes) all adjacent enemy pieces except other Heavenly Tetrarches.

Is that instead of burning? That's an interesting addition

Is that instead of burning? That's an interesting addition

Yep. It creates a nice duality between the the Fire Demon and the Heavenly Tetrarch. And it was really easy to implement for the interactive diagrams and GC presets thanks to this comment and GC's Ultima include file. The diagram now understands the new restrictions for the jumping Generals as well (same as Tenjiku, but with no restrictions on the final capture), though it still isn't yet capable of understanding the burning restriction. The GC presets are also up to date. But the best part is that I am finally done developing this game (for real this time). It took 4 years, but it was worth it.

The new freezing ability for the Suzumu Heavenly Tetrarch came from a suggestion by Eric Silverman somewhere about a certain version of the Tenjiku Heavenly Tetrarch having a similar ability instead of the igui ability, immobilizing adjacent pieces, and stopping an adjacent Tenjiku Fire Demon's burn (for all pieces adjacent to the Fire Demon) as well. I can't seem to find it anymore though...

Edit: I also cropped the Shogi images so that they are the same size as the Mnemonic images.

Edit: It seems I left out the double igui part of the Tetrarch's description. I'll fix that right away.

Edit: I also changed the turn skipping restrictions to be more in line with those of other LSVs (specifically, you cannot skip two consecutive turns, making skipping a turn useless if your opponent can skip their turn too)

I think I have an idea of how to implement the burning restriction in the interactive diagram using the clicks array, which stores the values for each move made using the the new move system. It's going to take a while to perfect it though.

Edit: I managed to implement the burn restriction for Fire Demons that burn once in a prototype file. Now for the hard part...Fire Demons that burn twice.

Edit: Turns out the code from the first prototype covered a lot of the cases for the twice-burning Fire Demon. Now, the second prototype covers most cases. The only thing left is to allow a direct capture of a Fire Demon where the Fire Demon burns exactly twice.

Edit: After some struggling, I managed to cover all the cases for the twice-burning Fire Demon, which means the Diagram now properly forbids a Fire Demon from burning another Fire Demon. The Rules pages for Suzumu Shogi and Mitsugumi Shogi will be updated soon.

Edit: I've updated both pages. No more worrying about having the AI make an illegal move.

Edit: It turns out the AI's move generation doesn't use the clicks array, so the AI will exit with an error whenever you try to run it.

Edit: With some help from H. G. Muller, I was able to fix the burning restriction for the AI.

Suzumu Shogi is ready

Hello. Regarding the title of the variant, I believe there is a typo. 進, meaning "forward", is read as "susumu", not "suzumu".