Kevin Pacey wrote on Mon, Oct 10, 2022 04:26 PM UTC:
@ H.G.:
How important is the engine part (and thus the horizon effect) to a self-teaching program, such as the one that succeeded in defeating a world class human Go player? I would think that at first thought the horizon effect in Go is more of a problem to be dealt with than in FIDE chess, due to the large number of possible legal moves in a typical Go position.
That's unless there's something about Go that makes unforeseen moves often much less fatal than might be the case in FIDE chess, or less fatal than in more complex CVs such as the Apothecary CV complex (or e.g. my Sac Chess CV?). I'd thought that self-teaching programs meant the end of the world as far as a human ever staying best for a long time at any board and/or card/dice game, rather than self-teaching software + engine possibly combined with faster and faster hardware.
[P.S.: Note that Seirawan Chess may not have been a complex enough CV (not high enough branching factor?), as an engine surpasses top human players early on, I read somewhere; Arimaa had a pretty high branching factor, but fell to a machine over top humans after less than 2 decades (still not high enough branching factor? Some other reason?).]
@ H.G.:
How important is the engine part (and thus the horizon effect) to a self-teaching program, such as the one that succeeded in defeating a world class human Go player? I would think that at first thought the horizon effect in Go is more of a problem to be dealt with than in FIDE chess, due to the large number of possible legal moves in a typical Go position.
That's unless there's something about Go that makes unforeseen moves often much less fatal than might be the case in FIDE chess, or less fatal than in more complex CVs such as the Apothecary CV complex (or e.g. my Sac Chess CV?). I'd thought that self-teaching programs meant the end of the world as far as a human ever staying best for a long time at any board and/or card/dice game, rather than self-teaching software + engine possibly combined with faster and faster hardware.
[P.S.: Note that Seirawan Chess may not have been a complex enough CV (not high enough branching factor?), as an engine surpasses top human players early on, I read somewhere; Arimaa had a pretty high branching factor, but fell to a machine over top humans after less than 2 decades (still not high enough branching factor? Some other reason?).]
https://www.chessvariants.com/diffobjective.dir/arimaa.html