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Fischer Random Chess. Play from a random setup. (8x8, Cells: 64) (Recognized!)[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]

Brad Hoehne wrote on Wed, Jun 20, 2001 12:00 AM UTC:

Hi,

I have worked out a slightly different method of setting up Fischer random
chess positions with a single six-sided die.   It's fairly easy to
memorizem because it follows logically from the positional rules of the
game.   As far as I can tell it will create all possible positions. Here it
is:

All die rolls are counted from the left side of the board from white's
point of view and apply to remaining empty and 'legal' squares only.

Because the king must be between both rooks, it can only occupy the central
six squares on each side.  Roll a die and place the king on one of the six
'central' squares.

Now place the rooks.   Roll a die for the left rook.  If the number exceeds
the number of squares on the left side of the king, roll again.    Repeat
for the right rook.  If there is only one square to the right or left of
the king, skip the rolls and simply place the rook.

Now place the Bishops.   Place the first bishop based on a die roll.   If
the roll value exceeds the number of remaining squares, roll again.   Place
the second bishop in a similar manner counting only the available squares
of the opposite color of the already placed bishop.

Place the queen with a die roll.  If the die number is 4-6 then subtract 3
from its value (to minimize the number of rolls necessary.)

Place the two knights on the last two squares.

I have yet to study this method in detail to determine if it favors certain
positions.


A modification of the die roll procedure to minimize re-rolls is as
follows:   If there are 2-3 'legal' squares for the rooks or the second
bishop take the remainder of the die in the 'modula' of the number of
remaining squares.  For example, if there are two legal squares for the
left rook, and one rolls a 5, one counts this as a '1', as 1 is the
remainder when one divides 5 by 2.  If the roll had been a '4' one would
count this as a '2'.   In the case of 3 empty squares, one a '5' would
count as a '2'.  A '6' would count as a '3' and a '4' would count  as a '1'
(as in the queen roll, which will always have 3).   

This method will not work without bias when there are 4-6 legal squares
remaining, and re-rolls must be employed.  However, statistically speaking,
fewer rolls will be necessary in such a case anyway.   

It is possible, though highly improbable, that one might require a very
large number of rolls to finally 'nail down' a position for the rooks and
bishops.  But once they are placed, only 1 roll remains.

What do you think?

Brad Hoehne- Columbus, Ohio.

Rookmaster wrote on Sat, Apr 20, 2002 11:01 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

Very good!

ken wrote on Sun, Apr 28, 2002 07:05 AM UTC:Poor ★

actually.. if you are a real fan of bobby fischer, you would have heard how
the real set up goes..

all pawns are in the exact same spots

king is placed in same position..
all other pieces in back row are shuffled but there must be at least 1
piece of 1 kind on each side and on the opposite side like a mirror

same goes for black.. mirror of whites side

Anonymous wrote on Wed, Sep 11, 2002 09:35 PM UTC:

This is a nice article, but it's frustratingly vague about how to castle (making it hard to actually play given the information here). I've examined the rules available on the web, including translations, and based on them written my own summary of Fischer Random Chess that I think is clearer. Please feel free to see my summary at <a href='http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/Fischer_Random_Chess.html'> http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/Fischer_Random_Chess.html</a>

Chuck wrote on Sat, Sep 14, 2002 09:47 AM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

Brad, I think your method favors positions with the king near the edge of the board, relative to the standard method. This is because, since the king has to be between the two rooks, it's more likely to be closer to the center than to the edges. If the king is on the b1, there are only 6 combinations of squares the rooks can be on, while if it's on c1, there are 10 possible sets of squares for the rooks, and on d1, there are 12. (The fact that bishops must end up on opposite colors muddles things a bit too--it means that the king and two rooks are less likely to all three end up on the same color than they would be without the provision that bishops must be on opposite colors--but I can't think of a good way to explain this in detail without making this post much much longer than it already is.) To look at it from a brute-force perspective, if you simply count up the king positions out of <a href='http://www.chessvariants.com/diffsetup.dir/fischer-random-fen.html'>all 960 possible setups</a>, you will find there are: 108 setups with kings on b1 & b8 168 setups with kings on c1 & c8 204 setups with kings on d1 & d8 204 setups with kings on e1 & e8 168 setups with kings on f1 & f8 108 setups with kings on g1 & g8 The standard method gives an equal probability to each of the 960 setups .

Marountas John wrote on Wed, Sep 25, 2002 06:05 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

Hello guys ! I found this article extremely helpfull. I have implemented all rules and created a playing program. It is web-based and free of charges. Come and take a look at DC PlayZone : <a href='http://www.digichess.gr'>http://www.digichess.gr</a> Regards, Marountas John <a href='http://www.digichess.gr'>www.digichess.gr</a>

Scharnagl wrote on Sat, Oct 5, 2002 07:12 AM UTC:Good ★★★★

The rule of castling is not correct (last line of text). Please compare to <a href='http://www.smirf.de/Mirror/Compu/FullChess2_e.html'>Castling</a>.

Anonymous wrote on Fri, Oct 18, 2002 06:35 AM UTC:Good ★★★★

Fischerandom association:
http://www.Fischerandom.narod.ru
Welcome!

Dave Coffin wrote on Fri, Nov 1, 2002 02:32 AM UTC:Good ★★★★

I found a simpler procedure to set up Fischer Random Chess.
It doesn't require computers, dice, or lookup tables:

(1)  Put the eight white pieces in a bag.  Draw them one by one
and place them on squares a1, b1, ... h1.

(2)  If the bishops are on the same color, look at the following
pairs:  a1-b1, c1-d1, and e1-f1.  Swap the leftmost pair that
contains a bishop.

(3)  If the king is not between his rooks, swap the king with
the closer rook.

     All 960 legal positions are equally likely to result from
this method.

Moussambani wrote on Fri, Nov 1, 2002 11:16 AM UTC:

Can you prove it? I don't see that all the positions are equally likely? What if your bishops are at g1 and h1?

Dave Coffin wrote on Wed, Nov 6, 2002 09:43 PM UTC:

Oops, my bad.  There are 28 ways for the bishops to fall into the home row:
 16 ways are Fischer-legal and 12 aren't.  So there is no possible
one-to-one mapping of illegal positions to legal ones.  To be totally
unbiased, my Step #2 would have to say, 'If the bishops occupy the same
color, start over.'

My Step #3 is OK, though.  For every legal arrangement of king and rooks,
there are exactly two illegal ones.

Chris wrote on Fri, Nov 22, 2002 11:38 PM UTC:

I have long thought that the restriction of having bishops on opposite color squares is unnecessary. Why not let that be a strategic decision for each player? Maybe White will attempt to control squares of one color by placing both bishops on that color. Maybe Black will be content to balance the control of the bishops? Similarly, why restrict the King to be between the rooks? Maybe let each player 'castle in advance' by tucking the K away in a corner.

Reinhard Scharnagl wrote on Sat, Nov 23, 2002 05:41 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

You will find a nice freeware tool of a FEN-editor for Fischer Random Chess including a position generator at the following Link: <a href='http://www.rescon.de/Compu/FullChess7_e.html'>FullChess FEN-Editor</a>. Some ideas on chess algorithms and Fischer Random Chess could be found at this site too (English and German).

M. wrote on Mon, Dec 2, 2002 05:11 AM UTC:Good ★★★★

I played a game like this, and I liked it. Oh, and I set it up using David Coffin's method. Moussambani, g1 and h1 are different colors. what's the problem?

Landon W. Rabern wrote on Thu, Mar 27, 2003 06:12 PM UTC:

By the rules you have here, white can castle a-side.  Can he legally?

8/8/8/8/8/8/8/4NRKR w - - 0 1

white can castle h-side in this next position, yes?

8/8/8/8/8/8/8/5KR1 w - - 0 1

If the answer to the first question was yes, how about this position?

8/8/8/8/8/8/8/4nRKR w - - 0 1

does a piece occupying a square constitute that piece checking the
square?

Thanks,

Landon

roy keene wrote on Sat, Mar 29, 2003 02:21 PM UTC:Good ★★★★

a
very nice item. I just want to make a comment. I think Fischers chess is
realy good, but would have one thing different: as there is no kingside or
queenside as such (the k and q being setup randomly ) it would be better
if you cuold castle the same on both sides.....ie the king ends up on g1
or on b1. In standard chess castling q side has the disadvantage that king
is nearer the centre and has tl be moved to protect the a pawn. 
Leettting him castle deep int the corner would encoutrage opposite side
castling which leads to lively game sswithbsimultaneous attacks on bith
wings in my experience.
A very nice article thank you very much

Reinhard Scharnagl wrote on Sun, Mar 30, 2003 08:04 PM UTC:Good ★★★★

Sorry, the FRC castling rules has to be commented again, because they are not absolutely correct described here. For those who want to redefine them: remember that classical chess has to be compatibly included! I have tried to rewrite the FRC castling rules in a shorter but equivalent form at my homesite: <a href='http://www.rescon.de/Compu/fullchess3_e.html'>FRC Castling Rules</a> and something more around that theme (in english / german).

David A. Wheeler wrote on Tue, Jul 8, 2003 05:07 PM UTC:Good ★★★★

Beware: The castling rules for FullChess are _NOT_ the same as
the rules for Fischer Random Chess.  This is clear from the
Spanish ruleset.  I'm sure both games are enjoyable - it's just
important to note that they are different.  If you happen to get the
orthodox initial position, it doesn't matter, but in other positions
the difference could make a difference.

David A. Wheeler wrote on Fri, Jul 25, 2003 05:00 AM UTC:Good ★★★★

A clarification: in Fischer Random Chess, the kings and castling rook are not allowed to jump over any pieces except each other. I've talked with Eric van Reem about this, and he did not intend to allow piece jumping, though I think you could easily read his rules and think that piece jumping is allowed (and the chessvariants page is baed on van Reem's rules). In other words, the rules of FullChess are a correct (and a better stated version) of the Fischer Random Chess rules. For more information, along with a nice simple explanation of the rules, <a href='http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/Fischer_Random_Chess.html'>see this page on Fischer Random Chess</a>. I suggest that this chessvariants page be updated to give clearer rules that forbid jumping during castling, since it appears that its promulgators don't intend to allow piece jumping during castling at all.

Larry Smith wrote on Fri, May 14, 2004 09:16 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★

🕸📝Fergus Duniho wrote on Fri, May 14, 2004 11:24 PM UTC:

No, Larry, you are mistaken. I have them right. a-side castling is Queen-side, and h-side is King side. The a-side is the side closer to file d, where the Queen begins in Chess, and the h-side is the side closer to file e, which is where the King begins in Chess. Also, item f of Fischer's own description of the rules matches what I have said.

Larry Smith wrote on Sat, May 15, 2004 01:54 AM UTC:

Sorry, I've been playing a lot of Shogi lately and I got switch around on the starting cells of the notation. ;-)

frcec wrote on Sat, May 29, 2004 12:20 PM UTC:

Fischerandom Chess email Club
http://frcec.tripod.com/

FRCEC rated games via Game Courier!

To play your rated FRCEC via Game Courier, advise your Chess Variant ID
when you setup your FRCEC match. You will be assigned an FRCEC Match
Number, and a the FRCEC moderator will setup the match at Game Courier for
you. You will receive an email from Chess Variants confirming the match
details, and you can now start your game with Game Courier. 
 
To join FRCEC, send an email to:
frcec-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Reinhard Scharnagl wrote on Tue, Jun 8, 2004 10:09 PM UTC:

You now will find my 10 German/English Web pages on Fischer Random Chess at: <a href='http://homepages.compuserve.de/rescharn/Compu/fullchess1_e.html' title='The FRC Site'>The FRC Site</a>. Here you will find an overview of a new FRC book (to be published July 2004) in German language 'Fischer-Random-Schach (FRC/Chess960)' as a German language PDF document: <a href='http://homepages.compuserve.de/rescharn/Down/FRC_Materialien.pdf' title='FRC Book Overview'>FRC Book Overview</a>. The downloadable freeware FRC FullChess FEN Editor Version 1.4.0 (German/English) is described at: <a href='http://homepages.compuserve.de/rescharn/Compu/fullchess7_e.html' title='FRC FEN Editor'>FRC FEN Editor</a>.

Reinhard Scharnagl wrote on Sat, Jun 12, 2004 11:07 AM UTC:

My Web pages have moved to: <a href='http://www.chessbox.de/Compu/fullchess1_e.html' title='The FRC Site'>The FRC Site www.chessbox.de</a>.

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