Comments/Ratings for a Single Item

Matt,

You might want to consider getting a userid that will allow you to post
here without waiting for an editor to okay your messages. It's free, and
it will also give you the ability to edit your messages after posting
them.

I think Larry was complaining about a marketing ploy for getting people to
buy more than they need. It's commonly done with cards. You buy a packet
of trading cards without knowing what's in it and hope you get some new
ones. But it seems less likely to me that this would be done with
figurines. I imagine that Navia Dratp will include some starter sets and
booster sets, but I doubt that they will be selling their figurines in
mystery grab bags. With the higher prices of figurines, I expect that
would be a bad marketing ploy. It seems more likely to me that most
figurines will be sold individually like action figures.

As for myself, I don't expect to buy the game at all. This is partly
because I'm poor, and this game is just an extravagant luxury item to me.
Also, I have never been into collectible games, perhaps because they were
never a fad when I was a kid. The first collectible game I ever heard of
was Magic the Gathering, and I never heard of it until I was in graduate
school. And I've still never played it. The only collectible game I ever
played was Pokemon, which I played once with a much younger cousin who was
into the game. I somehow won without really understanding the rules, and I
know I won only because that's what my cousin told me. When I was in high
school, the really big thing in gaming was Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. I
remember remarking once that I had spent around $200.00 on this game. It
was like a collectible game in that you would buy it in components, but it
wasn't the same thing. I would describe it as a modular game, not a
collectible game. The main things to buy for the game were rulebooks,
modules, and dice. You could buy figurines for it too, but I never did. I
was still in high school the last time I played AD&D, and I eventually
sold most of my books. Since then, I have never played another role
playing game.

I do hold out some hope that Navia Dratp will draw some people into Chess
variants. It sometimes takes only a little push to move someone in this
direction. My early interest in Chess variants had lain dormant for many
years. In 1998, I downloaded an abandonware copy of Battle Chess II for
the Amiga, and I ran it on an Amiga emulator on my PC. This turned out to
be Chinese Chess, which got me interested in the possibility of finding
programs that would play other Chess variants. I then found programs for
Shogi, Grand Chess, and Capablanca's Chess. A short time later I
discovered this site, and shortly after that, Zillions debuted, and the
rest is history. It's possible that Navia Dratp will directly inspire an
interest in Chess variants in only a few people, but even if that's all
that happens, it could have a rippling effect if even just one of them
becomes a regular member of the CV community. So there is potential that
Navia Drapt will help the CV cause even if I'm not going to buy the game
myself.

Fergus,
It's been confirmed by distributors that ND booster packs will be mystery
grab bags of 3 minis for $9. The same with the 8 minis in the starter set,
except you can see the Navia through the packaging. Wizkids already uses 
this marketing tactic, and me and my brother probably have 200 click-dial 
miniatures between us. I stopped buying them cold turkey last year after I 
saw Navia Dratp, and started selling them off, because I am strictly a
'one-expensive-miniatures-game-at-a-time' kind of guy. I feel your pain.

Michael,
true or false: game companies should not sell a sealed box of random game
components in which the purchaser does not know what he is paying for. Is
such a company exploiting its customers? Or as I would say, hey, I can't
blame them for milking a cash cow for all it's worth. The answer could be
interpreted as a statement about morality. Stay on this channel after the
movie for a shocking expose on the 11:00 news. I was being deliberately
hyperbolic, sorry-- but that's because controversy is so much more
interesting. ;^)

Any relation to David Howe?

One of the reasons that video-game adaptations of these sorts of games are
so great is that the only money you spend is the $20-$50 on the game
itself...  Of course if successive versions are released, we all know how
that goes.  Still, there really isn't anything like playing a game with
physical pieces with a human sitting opposite you.

An average of $3 a piece may seem a little high, but do recall that you
use much fewer pieces in an army for Navia Dratp than you do cards in any
given CCG, meaning that in the long run you may spend less money to get a
'really good' set.  Of course, none of us knows until it's released.  I
suggest we all wait until then, and *then* start to bash the game's little
details.

I played Navia Dratp Tournement this weekend. There are a few rules that
you don't have listed.

1 Winning the game: Capturing opponents Navia, Moving your Navia off the
opposite side of the board, collecting all 60 points.

2 When a piece is captured, you recieve it's value in points, 1 or 3 for
the pawns, and the promotion cost for a figure. 

3. You may use your turn to promote a piece without moving it, but you
can
not move any other piece.

Mike,
this is exciting news! Where was this tournament? How was it possible to
conduct a whole tournament before the public release? Do you mean a demo?
Can you describe some of the pieces?

What I want to know isn't how many pieces are going to be rare but,
how
many are there going to be total in the series? (Series 1)Such as is
there
going to be a checklist type page sent out with each booster? Or no? And
if not how will you be able to get one? Most people will want to know how
many there are so that they know wether or not they have the whole set
or,
if they still need to get more. 
   Also if there is only three pieces in the boosters then how will they
be arranged? 1 Rare and two others per box. Or 1 rare, 1 uncommon and, 1
common per box? The set up design of the boosters will also have a big
effect on sales too.

From someone helping with Bandai's demos and game play.  Trying to answer
some of the questions I've seen:

I believe that there will be 31 pieces total in the first series (7 each
in 2 starters and 17 pieces only available in the boosters.  There is a
checklist in the instruction booklet that comes with the starters.  Hope I
remembered it correctly.

Right now the rules allow you to have any 7 masetai that you wish on your
side.  No duplicates unless you have a painted and unpainted figure.  The
theory behind allowing any pieces of your choice is that if you pick
figures that all have to high of a drapting cost (the more powerful
figures) that you will never earn enough gyullas to use them.  So you need
to balance your team.  We'll just have to see how this works out because
I'm not sure if the theory will work or not.

Because there are 3 different ways to win you may pick very different
pieces from your opponent.  Again, we will have to see if this theory
works out or if everyone is going to play with the same figures.

Bandai is having very small informal tournaments at some of the summer
conventions.  So far Origins, Anime Expo, San Diego Comic Con.  First
officially scheduled tournament will be at Gen Con Indy.  We have been
having the players draft pieces from the 2 starters to form their side and
it has worked out pretty well so far.  Not sure how Gen Con Indy will be
run yet.  Prizes have included starters and boosters for the top couple of
winners.  

Hope this helps a little.

Unofficial news but this should be accurate:

Odd - (revival) has the ability to revive as many black gulleds as
possible from your graveyard for 6 gyullas

Lord Kiggoshi - (smart bomb) drapt for 25 gyullas and kill all pieces even
your own in 3x3 grid on the board

Nemchant - (power destroyer) for 7 gyullas un-drapt all pieces even your
own on the board

Hansa - one of his movements is move diagnolly but can bounce off the side
of the board

Those are a few of the pieces in the booster boxes.

I got the demo set in yesterday, and the game is gorgeous, and we're
looking forward to generating some excitment for the game by the time it
appears mid-August. The game play is relatively simple to grasp the
basics, then it takes a bit more study to get to the strategy of it all.

I know the collectibility of the pieces is going to turn some people off
of the game. As a retailer, of course, I enjoy what collectibility does
to
my cash register. As a player, I'm torn on it. I like the excitment of
the
chase, but if I'm really wanting a particular piece, then I'm going to
be
frustrated if it doesn't turn up within a few purchases.

Give the game a try...I think most of you will find it enjoyable. And if
nothing else, the pieces are beautiful to look at--and not all of them
are
little 'girlie' figures. They should appeal to both genders.

Thanks to Michele from Conclave Games in Louisiana for sending me info
about the Maseitai that come with the first starter sets. In the following
descriptions, keep in mind that each piece may only Dratp one time (I
think).
     Here is the team that comes in the set of the Navia named Estelle.
     #1. 'Troll' looks like an elf with long ears, bug eyes and bug
wings. It moves as a Ferz (one diagonal step). For 4 gyullas, Troll
promotes to a Dabbabah Ferz (leaps to the second-out orthogonal space, or
one diagonal step.) 'Navia Guard:' Can be summoned not just to a
Summoning Square, but also to any square adjacent to the Navia. 'Energy
Drop:' Earn 10 gyullas when Troll is sent to the Graveyard by your
opponent.
     #2. 'Agunilyos' is an anthropomorphic tiger wearing armor and a
cape with a sword. It moves as a King, but for 16 gyullas promotes to a
Queen.
     #3. 'Hamulus Garuda' is an anthropomorphic pterodactyl carrying a
six-barreled crossbow. It moves as a Ferz combined with non-leaping Alfil.
(In other words, up to two steps in any diagonal direction.) For 9 gyullas
it promotes to King + Bishop.
     #4. 'Garrison' is an anthropomorphic panther wearing armor and a
cape with a sword. It starts as a Gold General (like a King missing the
backward diagonal directions) and promotes for 5 gyullas to a Lance (a
Rook that can only move forward). I sure wouldn't Dratp this piece,
unless you have another one with the magic power to bring him back when
he's stuck helpless on the farthest rank.
     #5. 'Netol' is a woman with rabbit ears, a huge collar-frill like a
lizard, and skin as ebony as night. She can take one step straight forward
or backward, or the forward diagonals, but not straight to the side, or
back diagonals. For 5 gyullas she invokes the 'Spider's Thread:'
Resurrect any Maseitai of your choice from your Graveyard to any open
Summoning Squares, and send Netol to take its place in the Graveyard.
     #6. 'Gundrill' is a wrinkly Mandrill ape with screaming jaws full
of fangs and a gigantic exposed brain. It moves as a Ferz combined with
non-leaping Alfil. (In other words, up to two steps in any diagonal
direction.) For 6 gyullas, decrease its range of movement so that it can
only move side-to-side up to two spaces, and it gains 'Voice to Call:'
Once per turn, you may move one of your battle pieces of your choice (such
as the promoted Garrison, I hope) from anywhere on the battlefield to any
open space adjacent to Gundrill, except for the ones straight left and
right.
     The following is the team that comes in the set of the Navia named
Deborah.
     #7. 'Tiny Kiggoshi' looks like a green Martian with a big spherical
braincase, a conical hat with streamers, slouching posture and a vapid
expression. It takes one step right, left or forward. For 14 Gyullas
invoke 'Shared Destruction:' Send Tiny Kiggoshi plus any Battle Piece of
your choice (even your own) from the Battlefield to the Graveyard.
     #8. 'Olip' is a little floating, puffy, multi-colored glowing jelly
with flaps like a flying squirrel and tiny fangs under his cute beady eyes.
He takes one orthogonal step. For 4 gyullas, invoke 'Reflection in the
Water:' On the turn that you Dratp, switch the position of two of your
pieces on the Battlefield.
     #9. 'Gilgame II' appears to be a giant bio-mecha like I used to see
Voltron fighting. It moves as a Silver General (one step diagonally or
straight forward). For 11 gyullas it promotes to King + Dabbabah +
non-leaping Alfil. (1 or 2 steps in any direction.)
     #10. 'Moses' is an anthropomorphic dinosaur with a pteranodon
crest, wearing armor and a cape and weilding a battleaxe. It moves up to 2
steps orthogonally. For 10 gyullas, promote to King + Rook.
     #11. 'Nebguard' is an anthropomorphic ram with giant spiral horns,
wearing armor and weilding what appears to be a polearm. It moves up to
two steps, diagonally forward or straight backward. For 3 gyullas, he
promotes to go as far as desired in those three directions, like a
'forward Bishop' combined with 'backward Rook.'
     #12. 'Gyullas Turtle' is a flying robot turtle who moves one step
in the three forward directions. For 5 gyullas, invoke 'Gyullas
Glutton:' Earn 6 gyullas per turn when Gyullas Turtle moves from now on.
     #13. 'Kapinah' is an anthropomorphic bird of prey wearing armor and
weilding a sword. It moves one step straight forward. For 8 gyullas,
promote to move one step forward, left, right, or diagonally forward, and
invoke 'Dive Bomb:' On the turn that you Dratp, immediately fly to any
open space on the Battlefield.

I noticed in the list below (and the card pics on your website (thanks for
posting)) that there are only six different Maseitai listed for one of the
starters.

I know I could wait until the release :|, but I'm just curious if that
means there are 2 of the same in that set, or if one was just accidentally
omitted?

Definetely looking forward to the game!

P.

(Follow-up to my preceding post)
Today, a gallery of all pieces (& cards) came online. Thus the missing
piece is the following:
#14. 'Koma' looks like a sort of knight in a shell/stone armore. Moves
to any of a line of 5 squares in front of him (good defense?)
Power: 'Sealing' - For 8 Gyullas, send any Maseitai of your choice (even
your own) from battlefield to the Keep(Seal), Koma must be sent to
Graveyard.

The pictures seem to be from the final mass-production version, which went
through the unfortunately expected process of 'cheapification'. The
biggest changes are:
- noticeably less detailed Navias (especially noticeable since the
pictures of the original promotional pieces are still used on the cards)
Maybe a little paint touch-up would improve them, but the sculptures look
less detailed too...
- a redesigned board which look like it just might be a piece of paper
folded in four (I always wondered how they would fit the original mat,
even rolled up, into the boxes on display) Regardless of the physical
aspect, I liked the original design better (but that can be helped too)

But all the other parts, incl. the Maseitai still look very nice, and of
course none of the above detracts from a hopefully interesting gameplay.

P.

I don't know if links to (commercial) websites are permissible, but at
the moderator's discretion: http://www.toywiz.com/nadrfiga.html
(I have not personally dealt with the shop, and do not endorse it in any
way) Otherwise, as always, Google is your helpful assistant.

(Finally got my ID, since it looks like I'm posting more than one or two
messages :)

Since at least initially Navia Dratp will only have a small audience, and
players will be fairly few and far inbetween, by location or schedule (in
my case) I have been toying with creating a simple online/play-by-email
adaptation to try and get to play with other enthusiasts.

As a warm-up I have created a Tori Shogi adaptation (on which Navia Dratp
seems to be loosely based) using a generic, free/open-source
boardgame/wargame engine called the Vassal engine
(http://vassalengine.org/) which runs on all major OSes, and allows for
both online and play-by-email gaming.

If you would like to give it a shot, the beta can be found in the
'Files' section of the Yahoo Group of the same name.

Also let me know if you would be interested in playing that way. I admit
that regrettably any virtual version won't let you use the nice physical
components but at least you get to play... and hey, I plan to make an
effort to make it as nice as possible (see my Tori Shogi adaptation)

P.

Here's a list I found of the additional Pieces available through
Booster Packs:

NAVIAS:
N-003 Navia Io,  N-004 Navia Krra

MASEITAI:
M-015 Schmidt,   M-016 Matogayu,      M-017 Midrah,
M-018 Kanaba,    M-019 Sungyullas,    M-020 Tanhoizer,
M-021 Kanimiso,  M-022 Billpentod,    M-023 Hansa,
M-024 Kapinahs,  M-025 Odd,           M-026 Coydrocomp,
M-027 Nemchant,  M-028 Lord Kiggoshi, M-029 Chugyullas

Together with the 2 Navias and 14 Maseitais from the Starter Sets, that
makes for a total of 33 unique pieces in the first release.

Lucky You :) I ordered mine online since the only decent Gamestore in my
area closed down a couple of months ago... there's a comicbookstore, but
it's all YuGiOh cards :p

I was thinking about starting a Yahoo Group, since there doesn't seem to
be one yet, and it's free too... Of course a website would be more
flexible, if you can host it & build it.

Speaking of online presence, the Bandai marketeers are keeping a VERY low
profile, aren't they? Companies like Wizkids drum up interest for months
with sneak peeks, forums, downloadable rules etc, but Bandai's website:
'Coming soon'? They must be very sure of their success or, on the
contrary, not care that much (since it's not a big property/brand
anyway)?

That is the funny thing though, usually an internet presence is the glue
that holds a community of gamers together between conventions and special
in-store events, as all the smaller and larger game companies catering to
the 'Hobby market' know well.

Unlike major companies like Hasbro, or Bandai, which cater to the
mainstream market with palette-loads of games shipped to the local
Toys'R'Us, mainly big 'properties' and family classics like Monopoly,
Pictionary, Stratego etc., smaller companies like Wizkids, Decipher etc.
need to foster a community, especially online(!), organize tournaments
etc.,which obviously a large corporation like Bandai isn't used to doing
(even though they talk the talk, as per the interview you mention) I also
remember reading an interview (maybe the same) about them opening a
specific website like that, but one would think that by the time a product
is released, it should be up and running... I guess we'll see on
Saturday.

I just finished reading a book on (non-computer) Game Design and the
rather peculiar american games industry responsible for manufacturing and
distributing these games, and it was full of anecdotes of mismanagement
and odd decisions that make you wonder what were they thinking? It's just
funny to see it ongoing.

Perhaps, because it is aimed at such a 'small' market they don't know
well, Bandai has barely been able to meet the demand with more pre-orders
than expected, and not wanting to overstock, and thus have no interest in
pushing it at this time...

Another example would be Wizkids, who previously ran into major problems
producing _too much_ product, and not finding any buyers, and just
recently largely miscalculated the interest in their latest product,
Pirates of the Spanish Main, after fanning the interest of gamers for
months _online_ (irregardless of wether it's actually a good game), and
ended up well short of the demand. Now some people make quite a bit of
money on eBay while Wizkids looses sales, scrambling to get more product
manufactured.

Anyway, just some idle musings...

PL,
my brother has Pirates otSM. I've played it and it's fun. The best thing
about it is that they actually printed it all correctly; no errata sheet!

The guy I'm corresponding with who is with Bandai organized play says to
wait two or three weeks and they will have their company's organized play
system complete.

In the meantime my local chess variants group is getting together to play
Navia Dratp tonight.

Matt,

I'm glad you got your starters already.  I'll be working at the Bandai
booth at Gen Con Indy next week doing demos and Erick will be running
Navia Drapt tournaments during the convention.  Hopefully, we will get a
good turnout for the tournaments.  Creator of the game is supposed to come
from Japan and play the winner of the tournament.