Check out McCooey's Hexagonal Chess, our featured variant for May, 2025.


[ Help | Earliest Comments | Latest Comments ]
[ List All Subjects of Discussion | Create New Subject of Discussion ]
[ List Earliest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]

Comments/Ratings for a Single Item

EarliestEarlier Reverse Order LaterLatest
Betza notation (extended). The powerful XBetza extension to Betza's funny notation.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
Aurelian Florea wrote on Thu, Jun 13, 2024 01:46 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 12:06 PM:

Just to be sure, the two pieces I have mentioned are:

BWmcafWcafmpcafWmpafmpcafW

&

RFmcafFcafmpcafFmpafmpcafF


💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Jun 13, 2024 01:50 PM UTC in reply to Aurelian Florea from 01:46 PM:

Either write mpcafW (F), or add a D (A).


Aurelian Florea wrote on Thu, Jun 13, 2024 02:09 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 01:50 PM:

Thanks!


Bob Greenwade wrote on Thu, Jun 13, 2024 03:12 PM UTC in reply to Aurelian Florea from 01:46 PM:

Wouldn't R(cmpaf)2F and B(cmpaf)2W do the job somewhat more compactly?


Aurelian Florea wrote on Thu, Jun 13, 2024 05:16 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 12:06 PM:

How do I put in the promochoice variable an piece that is represented by two letters?


💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Thu, Jun 13, 2024 08:07 PM UTC in reply to Aurelian Florea from 05:16 PM:

How do I put in the promochoice variable an piece that is represented by two letters?

Separate all pieces by commas.


Bob Greenwade wrote on Sat, Jun 15, 2024 05:15 PM UTC:

Semi-related to other stuff:

I've initiated a study of Javascript in order to sit down and code a set of "weird" moves that could then be called upon for use in IDs. Some of my goals (roughly in priority order):

  • Null move (mpabK) (click on the square twice, and if the piece can legally move back to the space using this or any other move, a popup asks if you want to make a Null move)
  • Defining crooked/zigzag (zB, zR, zN) and rosy (qN, qC, qZ) moves as vectors that can be used for rifle captures and such.
  • Same for the Windmill (pabs(abpabq)K) and Gorgon (KyafsK), and possibly Switchback (afq(afzafq)K(afqafz)K)
  • Refractor/Counterrefractor (moving perpendicular or parallel to the board's edge)
  • Edgehog
  • Etchessera Guard (follows the King around)
  • Root-N25 Leaper
  • Alternate modifiers for "again, including backwards" (a(b)), "juggernaut capture" ((caf)), "flying jump" ((paf)), and similar constructs so they can be enclosed in parentheses without having to nest.

I'm figuring to assign extended Latin characters to each of these, but also have some sort of assignLetter command that can be put into the ID description so a user can assign whatever letter is preferred (including regular ASCII, of course).

And I know that there are solutions to some of these (like Edgehog and Refractor)  using complex algorithms; I'm looking to shorten them for the user.

I'll set any of these aside, of course, if you beat me to them. ;) (I actually don't figure you'll ever get to any but maybe the first two and last one.)


💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, Jun 16, 2024 06:18 AM UTC in reply to Bob Greenwade from Sat Jun 15 05:15 PM:

General implementation of the bracket notation might make some of this unneeded. I mean, [K?fsQ] for Gorgon seems clear enough; why would you need a special notation (which no one would know or remember) for such a rarely used piece? The Griffon is much more common. The 'again, including backwards' issue also solves itself in bracket notation, where you would simply prefix the continuation leg with ab.

Problem with null move is indeed how to enter it, not how to describe it. An unconditianal null move could be assigned to the King, but that is just a kludge, as a null move cannot really be assigned to any piece. There could also be a parameter allowPass=1 to enable null moving, which could then provide an extra button to play it, rather than a tricky combination of board clicks that users might not be aware of. Because there is no enforcement of turn order, turns can always be passed when the AI is off. And when the AI is on there could be a button 'Pass' next to the button 'Move', which would do the same, but for the other player. Of course some provision for this should be made as well in the game notation.

The zig-zag/circular slides now use a different internal representation than other (more general) multi-leg moves. This is undesirable, and should be integrated. The whole problem can be reduced to the possibility for optional early termination of a multi-leg sequence. Using parentheses re-introduces the problem that the special z/q representation tried to solve, namely that slides are expanded into different, strongly overlapping lame leaps. Which makes move generation very inefficient. Problem is that the parentheses often indicate early termination of a sequence of intermediate legs, which must still be followed by a final one. (Which makes them similar to hook movers.) So it is not really an 'early termination' of a longer move. If the entire path was precomputed (maximum number of repeats) there should be a provision for optionally skipping a number of legs, to continue with the final part.

I once coined the idea to use the E atom in the bracket notation for a null leg on an edge square. Which would make the Edge Hog simply [E-Q][Q-E]. Using a semicolon separator in the bracket notation for indicating the remaining legs are for 'shooting only' would probably solve the crooked rifle-capture problem. The modifier cc could then be used for indicating a juggernaut leg, like pp could be used for hopping over arbitrary many.


HaruN Y wrote on Sun, Jun 23, 2024 05:52 AM UTC in reply to Jean-Louis Cazaux from Sat Apr 13 11:52 AM:

Christian Poisson called it Serpent in French but he called it Snake in English.


Aurelian Florea wrote on Fri, Oct 4, 2024 10:18 AM UTC:

I need a maorider+moarider compound, but I can't find the correct string. Can anyone help?


HaruN Y wrote on Fri, Oct 4, 2024 10:28 AM UTC in reply to Aurelian Florea from 10:18 AM:
Maorider: afz(afzafz)W
Moarider: afz(afzafz)F
Moorider: afz(afzafz)K

Aurelian Florea wrote on Fri, Oct 4, 2024 11:44 AM UTC in reply to HaruN Y from 10:28 AM:

Thanks!


GnomeChamp wrote on Sat, Dec 7, 2024 08:25 AM UTC:

The codes that you gave for the Lion does not allow you to pass your turn (like you can in chu shogi) by moving the lion and then moving it back to its starting square. How would you define a code that allows you to effectively pass your turn by moving a double mover (without a capture) away from and then back to its starting square?


💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, Dec 7, 2024 12:54 PM UTC in reply to GnomeChamp from 08:25 AM:

The Chu-Shogi Lion's turn pass can be written as mabK or [K-bK]. But there is no way to enter a turn pass in the Interactive Diagram. Since the Diagram does not enforce turn order, though, you can pass a turn in any Diagram by simply playing two moves for the other side in a row. If you want the AI to play the extra move you can use the Move button. It messes up the game notation, though. Perhaps I should let the notation code detect this, and insert a null move (e.g. --).

I can add that even though the rules in Chu Shogi do allow you to pass a turn in some situations, I so far could not imagine any position where this would be a good move.


HaruN Y wrote on Sun, Dec 8, 2024 03:19 AM UTC in reply to GnomeChamp from Sat Dec 7 08:25 AM:

You can write the piece ID & then the square it is on.

e.g. if you want R on h4 to do a null move then write "Rh4" then paste it in the move list.


💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Sun, Dec 8, 2024 07:38 AM UTC in reply to HaruN Y from 03:19 AM:

That would be a possibility. But not all variants that do allow turn pass associate this turn pass with a piece. And when different pieces can do a null move, you would have different notations for the same move. Of course you coould always associate a null move with the King, which should always be there.

But the conventional solution used by interfaces for orthodox Chess is to write them as 'pass' or '--'. Although in Chess these are of course illegal, many interfaces allow them during interactive analysis. Where it can be important to answer the question "what is the threat I am facing in this position".

Th problem here is not how to write the turn pass, but that the I.D. currently is not aware at all that when two moves of the same player are done in a row a turn pass should be inserted between them. Hence the notation gets 'out of phase'. Which is fatal for reading it back, as SAN does not explicitly encode the color of the moving piece. Nf6 could mean either a white or black Knight. For two Knights of the same color being able to make that move it would add disambiguation, like Ngf6, but not if a Knight of the opponent can make the same move. When it encounters Nf6, it only looks for Knights of the color that it expects to be on move, which only follows from the sequence number of the move in the game record to be even or odd.

So I guess that before adding a move to the game it should first check whether the color of the moved piece corresponds to the even/oddness of its sequence number, and if not insert the turn pass before adding the move.


Jörg Knappen wrote on Sun, Dec 8, 2024 10:51 AM UTC in reply to HaruN Y from Fri Oct 4 10:28 AM:

Is it really the combination of Maorider + Moarider that you describe here

Moorider: afz(afzafz)K

Or does your description allow the rider for each step choosing again between Mao and Mao steps? A simple combination piece must choose one step pattern (Mao or Moa) for all of its steps.


HaruN Y wrote on Sun, Dec 8, 2024 02:01 PM UTC in reply to Jörg Knappen from 10:51 AM:
The former.
There is an XBetza Sandbox to try out the XBetza notation on this page.

Aurelian Florea wrote on Sat, Feb 1 12:56 PM UTC:

I'd like the XBetza string for two pieces. One is a gryphon which starts with an wazir move though. The second is a manticore which starts with an ferz move instead of normal.


HaruN Y wrote on Sat, Feb 1 01:35 PM UTC in reply to Aurelian Florea from 12:56 PM:Excellent ★★★★★

Wafs(yafz)1W or [W?F?fzR] & Fafs(yafz)1F or [F?W?fzB].


💡📝H. G. Muller wrote on Sat, Feb 1 01:36 PM UTC in reply to Aurelian Florea from 12:56 PM:

You mean they make a 90-degree turn? That would be [F?sB] and [W?sR] in bracket notation (FyasF and WyasW in old notation).


Aurelian Florea wrote on Sat, Feb 1 01:58 PM UTC in reply to H. G. Muller from 01:36 PM:

Yes! Thanks!


Aurelian Florea wrote on Sat, Feb 1 02:19 PM UTC in reply to HaruN Y from 01:35 PM:

Actually Harun Y got what I wanted. Thanks to you both!


William Wragg wrote on Tue, Feb 4 01:17 PM UTC:

I'm trying to work out if it's possible, with the extended XBetza notation, to allow capture as normal, but allow swapping with only friendly pieces that aren't the same as the swapping piece. As an example, for a Bishop I have mudBcB, which allows capturing as normal, and swapping with any friendly piece, but that also allows swapping with another friendly Bishop, which I don't want to allow. Any help appreciated.


HaruN Y wrote on Tue, Feb 4 02:01 PM UTC in reply to William Wragg from 01:17 PM:Excellent ★★★★★

Use captureMatrix parameter.


25 comments displayed

EarliestEarlier Reverse Order LaterLatest

Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.