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Comments by GeorgeDuke

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Mutation Chess. Pieces that capture become the type of piece they captured. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Sat, Jun 14, 2008 05:13 PM UTC:Good ★★★★
From 1986 the capturer becomes the type of piece captured -- a disincentive for piece generally ever to capture Pawn.

Koopa Chess. Form of chess based on the Mario Brothers series of video games. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Sat, Jun 14, 2008 05:19 PM UTC:Good ★★★★
Majority of Betza's 150-200 CVs have differing effects from capturing than normal. The first time piece is captured, it is just ''stunned.'' When captured again, it is ''kicked,'' for which see the Rules of Koopa. ''You can kick your own stunned piece except for King.''

Chess Variants with Inverse Capture. Several variants around the idea that captures are done in the manner of the captured piece. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Sat, Jun 14, 2008 05:30 PM UTC:
Much discussed in 2007, Chess with Inverse Capture uses the method of capture of the one attacked in order to capture. Allowing every piece to do so wreaks havoc on any reasonable strategy, and Betza shows these as family of games abstractly, not seriously to play. He recommends having ''some Inverse Capture pieces on the same board as some normal pieces'' for better comprehension in trying some moves. The theme is different capturing modes, and CVPage Index shows about 100 CVs available already.

Missing the Mark. Making intentional errors. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Sat, Jun 14, 2008 10:11 PM UTC:
Now ''Missing the Mark'' is like Neatham's King's Guard in having what would be called an assistor too. Betza's rules here include that, in making the one-square-horizontal allowable systematic mistake in the departure square, there must be ''another piece right beside the one you intend to move'' that is moved in its place. Except that Betza recommends that, oppositely for Black, Black moves the piece itself to the square the Assistor would reach, not the Assistor. [No, on second thought, that would be third option, not used by Betza. Betza's Black is to move (mistakenly) the horizontally-adjacent Assistor (RNBQKP) as the original piece would from ''Assistor'' departure square, not as if from original piece's square; Betza describes it.] We studied this for everyone in the CV's only preceding Comment in 2007 and find the idea to be another Mutator widely applicable. Actually, a White Bishop at g1 can move a Rook (Black or White) at h1 as far as a7, much more than any one-square displacement.

The Fighting Fizzies. An Experimental Army for Chess with Different Armies.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Sat, Jun 14, 2008 10:46 PM UTC:Good ★★★★
Aronson to be next prolificist to study in couple of follow-ups, please re-familiarize, even if not having time to play each CV, all of these. Amphora, Anti-King, Chaturanga-4-84, Cyclical Armies, White Elephant, Transactional, Train Wreck, Toto40, Toe-to-Toe, Star Pool, Snark Hunt, Ruddigore, Rolling Kings, Rococo, Royal Amazon, Prisoner's Escape. That's about half for now. Here separating into Right Rhino and Left Rhino also eliminates their multi-path character. The piece named after Betza, the Gnohmon, in this Army for Chess Different Armies is fbNfbWnH. f means forward, b back, and 'H' come from Betza's article ''Ideal & Practical Values V'' for (0,3) mover non-leaping. Gilman does not actually re-name the latter component with (0,3) Tripper, because that one fully leaps the fixed length.

[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
George Duke wrote on Tue, Jun 17, 2008 06:26 PM UTC:
What is a chess piece but a vector anyway? We want CV problems of the
calibre of good Physics questions, like ''(W) A seagull sits on the
ground. Wind-velocity is v. How high can the gull rise without doing any
work? (X) A siren is fixed at the origin. Wind is blowing at w = 100 km/h
from north. Determine (i) the group speed and (ii) the phase speed of
sound going north, south, and east. (Y) Neutral pi-mesons (mass m) in
flight at speed cB (with respect to laboratory) decay into two photons.
Calculate the energy of the photons emitted at a given angle to the flight
path.'' --all from Gabriel Barton 'Relativity Principle' (1999). For
Chess we can devise rough counterparts. (1) A Falcon sits on the board
centrally. How many moves are possible without re-crossing any of its paths
on 8x8? 8x10? (2) A Springer(N) is fixed at an opening position. How many
moves are maximally possible without crossing any of its paths on 8x8?
8x10? 10x10? [N.b.: these are not classic Tours, which permit
route-crossing.] (3) more Problems in follow-up

George Duke wrote on Tue, Jun 17, 2008 06:46 PM UTC:
(3) How many pieces at most does Chameleon capture in one move within
Ultima? in Rococo instead? Why the difference?  (4) What is the minimum
Fool's Mate at Alice Chess? (5) Consider practical piece values the way
Betza does without particularly computer aid. First, here compare Rococo
Cannon Pawns and Centennial Quadra-Pawns, neither able to promote. Of
course, Cannon Pawn benefits from larger board in general, compared to
Quadra-Pawn. At 10x10 Cannon Ps. are superior, whilst 8x8 Quadra-Ps. Where
would be the cross-over point, 8x9, 8x10, 9x9, 9x10? Which of the two have
higher piece value and better winning chances on those intermediate sizes,
other things being equal? // Now the upcoming decade of the teens, after
these aughts, will probably not see us get so sophisticated as Barton's:
(Z) ''By how many seconds a year does proper time in Singapore drop
behind a hypothetical reference clock fixed relative to but far away from
the sun, (a) due to the orbital motion of the earth; (b) due to its
orbital motion jointly with its rotation? (Orbital speed is u = 3 x 10^4 m/s, and
the speed of rotation at equator is u' = 460 m/s. Pretend that the axis
of rotation is perpendicular to the orbital plane.)''

This Game is for the Birds. Game where pieces fly past obstacles and some pieces capture by pecking. (8x8, Cells: 64) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Wed, Jun 18, 2008 04:29 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
''In the original conception of this game, the counterpeck of a dying piece could kill the Roc's Egg (King), and Pawns (Nestlings) had only their usual FIDE powers.'' Betza, Aronson and Lawson rightly uphold imaginative TGIFTB as perfectly playable and could add today more entertaining than 90% of 2007-2008 rerun fare. In rating Betza's ''This Game is for the Birds'' Excellent also, Peter Aronson comments: ''This is a strange and very mobile game, where pieces ghost around freely, and a Pawn's life is not a happy one.''

Ninety-one and a Half Trillion Falcon Chess Variants. Missing description[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
📝George Duke wrote on Wed, Jun 18, 2008 10:49 PM UTC:
We have made our serious whack at proliferation, and one legitimate CV, in combination, per atom within the inner Solar System has been no small task. Moreover, we are doing it with respect by not taxing people in over-length or every separate write-up per humble idea. They are all right here. This is purely organizational reference for upcoming Mutators, ours so far having been:  11> Immobilizer 12> Promoter 13> Triangular Transference 14> Warp Points 15> Cylindrical 16> Switching 17> Black Hole 18> Jack 19> Altair ranks 20> Selective Drop 21> Arrays 22> Capture & Drop 23> WandI 24> WandII 25> Selective Inverse Capture 26> Selective Immobilization 27> Philosopher's 28> Coordination 29> Hegemony 30> Reduction 31> Acid-Base 32> Strong Acid-Base; RN201> Fixed Pawns 202> Passed Pawns; RN301> Sizing; 203> Flying Dutchman 204> Relinquishment 205> Kick the Can 206> Pawn Islands 207> Hobbler 208> Blue Queen 209> Green Light 210> Hard-Boiled Eggs 211> Localization 212> Wolf & Shepherd 213> The Sea Is Rough 214> Hot Potato 215> British Bulldog 216> Sinkhole 217> Dual Capture 218> Mutual Annihilation 219> Northern Exposure[TM] 220> Northern Exposure(Pawns)  /// Intended Mutators are more Northern Exposures and ''Nuclear Particle Physics'' as ongoing theme.

Goatsuckers. Small modern shogi variant on 5 by 5 board. (5x5, Cells: 25) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Wed, Jun 18, 2008 11:47 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
Kendell Craig and Patricia Hernandez came up with Goatsuckers seven years ago. Capture the Goat or form three in a row within the Crop Circle. Cabras can only be captured by Chupacabras. The inventors cite Knight-Tac-Toe, Five-Star Chess, and Tic-Tac Chess, in the time when even casual designers had self-respect to find their place in the movement. Nicely creative, but one suspects some cook on only 5x5.

Dart Chess. Chess on a 6x6 board with a new piece: the Dart. (6x6, Cells: 36) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Thu, Jun 19, 2008 12:05 AM UTC:Good ★★★★
Another one never commented, Izzard invented other great Philosopher's Chess. In Short's Black Hole Chess and Scherzer's Black Hole Chess, the Black Holes, respectively one and four in number, serve to block. In Lorinc's Black Holes and Shields' Warp Point Chess, their counterparts are used for transport too. Differently Jacks & Witches has four transporter squares that never block. Here Izzard's darts, once placed, serve the same purpose as the blocking black holes. No comparison to Philosopher's. We have some of both, blocking squares and transporter types, among Mutators at ''91.5 Trillion...''

A Chess Problem with a Chancellor from Samuel Loyd. Chess problem from 19th century.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Fri, Jun 20, 2008 05:01 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
It turns out that puzzlist extraodinaire has couple of presences in CVPage. Loyd and Henry Dudeney are the greatest puzzlists since days of Islamic hegemony in Chess 1000 years ago. Loyd claimed to have invented the Fifteen Block Puzzle, those numbered 1-15 tiles in 4x4 square, but actually only adapted it. Bobby Fischer demonstrated John Carson his skill at solving 15-Puzzle on USA television in 1972, timed within 25 seconds. Likewise, Loyd borrowed to some extent from Dudeney in non-Chess problems and not noticeably the other way around. Now appropriately for ongoing topics, the Sam Loyd here shows Carrera (1617) Champion RN at Loyd's forte, Mate in Two. Loyd's books have hundreds of -Two, -Three, -Four with OrthoRules.

Mate in two moves. Old mate in two problem from 1859.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Fri, Jun 20, 2008 05:12 PM UTC:
''#6'' means Mate in Six, when that kind of thing was popular. These are the Organ Pipes in one instance. Loyd has hundred of them -- #2, #3, #4, #5, #6 in books and columns, and couple of ''Organ-Pipe'' ones besides this probable originator from year 1859. Ralph Betza recalls Excelsior and the American Indian in the Solution.

All the King's Men. Page describing variant chess pieces.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Fri, Jun 20, 2008 05:52 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
Before posting any Variant, of course, many designers read over Truelove's piece list for prior uses and have checked Pritchard's 'ECV'. Really it is incumbent on the conscientious inventor of new fairy Chess Rules-set also to read and learn George Jeliss' 100 or so standard definitions. At the outset, we take one exception to descriptive practice here. Jeliss calls, for example, Camel (1,3) leaper, as do most other analysts. We prefer to say (2,4), to denote rectangle of squares involved, not any movement itself stepwise. The preference for (2,4) instead rests on their being many pathways from starting square to opposite corner of (2,4), the ones with 90-degree change(s) of direction not especially more natural than ones showing 45- or 135-degree. Similarly, Antipodean piece, reappearing at (4,4) by Jeliss' usage really refers to opposite corners of (5,5) array of squares, more clearly delineating and ignoring the awkward four steps horizontal then abruptly four steps vertical, or vice versa, intended to be meant by ''(4,4).''

Betza Notation. A primer on the leading shorthand for describing variant piece moves.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Sat, Jun 21, 2008 06:13 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
Standard reference.

Courier 'de la Dama'. Courier Chess with a Modern Queen and other changes for more dynamic play. (12x8, Cells: 96) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Wed, Jun 25, 2008 07:07 PM UTC:Good ★★★★
''Some people'' means himself also, the main modifier of Courier. Nuno Cruz refers to his own Courier de la Dama. So, Cruz now does not sanction adding the Modern Queen. Medieaval Gala from the same region of Europe is better lesser-known game and on 100 squares omits Knights. Here, with Knights on 96, it takes still poor Knight six moves to cross corners, with or without that Mad Queen.

[Subject Thread] [Add Response]
George Duke wrote on Thu, Jun 26, 2008 06:52 PM UTC:
Of course with Falcon Chess 8x10 we disagree any '8x10 is dead', but to
contrary the obvious logical expansion, without ruining Pawn play, and
still below Shogi's 81 and Xiangqi's 90. 8x10 is surely correct rather
than 10x10, but who can definitely rule out Courier 8x12? Thousands of
oddball forms do not hide logical evolutions, as happened between
Shatranj and Modern -- be they today Fischer Random, specific Carrera
arrays, Falcon, Mastodon, or saving Mutator on 8x8 such as
later-introduced pieces. I mentioned more than once standard ubiquitous
European draughts boards 10x10 at Chessboard Math and ProblemThemes. This
thread became topic of board sizes 64,80,100 generally. Sam 
Trenholme, who started it, is noted for his own mid-1990's website of
pre-existing  Chess forms, not encouraging proliferation for its own sake.
We would be interested where any 80's are being played besides Brainking,
in order eventually to seek open inclusion of Falcon Chess there. Jeremy
Good's absence removes the only Falcon Chess advocate besides ourselves
developing work-ups. What about the mere existence of new Play servers without
specific addresses being named?

List of Chess Variants. This is a large listing of chess variants.[All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Thu, Jun 26, 2008 07:11 PM UTC:Excellent ★★★★★
Sam Trenholme had these as part of website by 1996, likely 1995 too, during which time Trenholme's had more material on Chess Variants than the then-new Chess Variant Page. Omitted are lengthy threads within of individuals' comments on such as the included Losing, Randomized, Bughouse, Pre-Chess; this particular item, for CVPage, is pared to mostly Rules of only some of the CVs Trenholme had, without any longer so extensive outside feedback and opinionating.

George Duke wrote on Thu, Jun 26, 2008 08:15 PM UTC:
Great article long-forgotten. One Trenholme-discovered Mutator probably covers inclusively 200 CVPage later-developed ''CVs,'' subsuming them all, namely, ''FAERY CHESS, 1 piece has special moves throughout the game.'' That's it. Have we outdone in 15 years what Sam already had in 1994, before CVPage existed. Has Sam's list even been improved upon? Probably what existed in 1995 was sufficient for the first decades of 21st Century. What would you propose to add or replace the (very partial) List here. These are great games Trenholme found: Shatranj, Reflex, Capablanca, Transcendental, Refusal, Compromise, Pocket Knight, Two Move, Progressive, Explosion, Knighted Queen, Odds Games [another one co-opting many future specificities], Twin, Prohibition, Poker, Kinglet, Annihilation, Pawn's Game, Berolina, Circe, Rifle, Baroque, Super [one of these is enough], Pre-Chess, Checkless, Double Move, Emperor King.... [10% of material so far]

Schoolbook. (Updated!) 8x10 chess with the rook + knight and bishop + knight pieces added. (10x8, Cells: 80) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Thu, Jun 26, 2008 11:24 PM UTC:Good ★★★★
Sam is being witty talking about the Death of Chess 8x10. He is joking because, obviously, earnest discussion of 8x10 only occurred in 1920's under Capablanca and now this decade. How can something relatively novel -- though existing in obscurantist lore for 400 years -- already be dead? After all, Sam has this Schoolbook and spends lot of time on Problems for it. He is attempting to be sarcastic, opening the 8x10 thread that way, as he was about there being so many named Carrera-Capablanca ones themselves, just Fischer-randomized. Trenholme indirectly makes the point that all the Chesses with Centaur (BN) and Champion (RN) ought to be brought under one roof if possible. The real farce is that 8x8 is so obviously dead, only a question on when, now, in 2013, or in 2030. And that CVPage could have been at the centre of the maelstrom but chooses instead to go deviant-wild. The Trenholme jests about all the Carrera arrays(early 2008) were not well taken in one quarter; but no harm is intended then or now. These are rather informal Comments in CVPage system, compared to Sam Trenholme's other material: the serious Schoolbook here and the wonderful List of CVs adapted in year 2000 for CVPage from mostly 1994-1996 early Internet site.

Falcon Chess. Game on an 8x10 board with a new piece: The Falcon. (10x8, Cells: 80) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝George Duke wrote on Fri, Jun 27, 2008 04:31 PM UTC:
This article is written for several perusals and assumes increasing degrees of familiarity for the importance of the topic, the total reformulation of Chess to its full, correct embodiment. We doubt Muller can even state, or visualize -- at present early stage for him, evidently, from his limited expressed understanding -- that there are 12 movement patterns or that there are always three-fold ways. Another 'Poor' will not knock us down a peg for our other contributions, since we reject the general values here. This first Comment may be followed up by another even weeks later on topic already covered by doing full research of available information. Patenting requires extensive specifics, hence the broad wording in article, carried over from Patent write-ups. No doubt we are partly at fault for not yet giving Jeremy Good request for elementary Rules-set. Evidently, most do not even understand the move with this style, judging by GC games played, and my often having to correct play (except for example Fourriere and Carlos who caught on). Falcon Chess has far and away the most 'Poor's of any CV, bar none. It continues from Editor Cazaux (any Editor may not have rated Poor anywhere else), to 'Fischer', to Nalls, to Gifford, now to Muller, and several others. How can there be any respect on our part when it is obvious Falcon is ''the missing piece,'' every other piece is not such, and the Ratings are the worst of any other. Constructively, the 'Poor's help us winnow out those we will not cooperate with in future reductions to practice. For example, we shall never sanction any Zillions application or association, no exceptions. When Zillions came on board about 2000, CVPage values plummetted. This particular article is almost exact copy of the first Copyright mailed to USA office, happening to be 1996, the same year Patent Application also was sent in. Sorry, it does not meet the formulaic worn descriptions we get the last ten years under CVPage auspices that we refuse to participate in. Editor Aronson calls Falcon ''the complement'' of Bishop, Knight, Rook. Simple as that. Editor Good calls Falcon ''the greatest innovation in Chess to come along in four hundred years....'' (Comment 17.7.2007 later revised to ''one of the gr...'') We may, or may not, get to patenting questions in follow-up that common courtesy would ordinarily require to answer. Since there is taboo to say anything good about my invention, more likely I shall continue role as analyst predominantly, contemptuous of the prevailing ethos. We are more interested, as usual, in wide evaluation and critique of others' work, in order to be fully competent later to thwart, or prosecute, any copycats of Falcon use. There are other Patents in works than USP5690334 and copyrights as intellectual property covering it. Any infringement or plagiarism will be held to account, whereever it occurs. Until there is some acceptance of evolutionary specifics in Chess, and desire to see it take place, the Falcon team response is duly limited like this.

Chieftain Chess. Missing description (16x12, Cells: 192) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
George Duke wrote on Fri, Jun 27, 2008 05:32 PM UTC:Good ★★★★
Joe Joyce writes: '' I would like to discuss design, even though I would expect you'd start by telling me my games are not worth the ether they're printed on. As my entire family rarely to never plays any of my games, having someone tell me they suck is not liable to rattle me too badly. Enjoy.'' --Rococo game Duke-Joyce ongoing. Appreciate Joyce's acknowledging that there is distinct possibility that some, or many, prolificists' CVs (having 15 or more separate) write-ups may be one and all Poor and not worth bothering with. However, not Joyce's: we recently courteously rated Joyce's Lemurian Shatranj 'Excellent'. And Chieftain Chess is highlighted by Joyce's creative comment's analogy to ''this grey band sucks gas right out of the air and fills the storage tank in the head of the piece...then it is empty until the beginning of the next turn.'' This is great writing and analogizing and so justifies our rerating here of another perfectly adequate made-up game for all ages. We do not diverge either from creative upgrading in context of accepted CVPage value-criteria.

Falcon Chess. Game on an 8x10 board with a new piece: The Falcon. (10x8, Cells: 80) [All Comments] [Add Comment or Rating]
💡📝George Duke wrote on Fri, Jun 27, 2008 07:16 PM UTC:
Suppose Damiel's '***' is an expletive, which is not surprising given CVPage standards vis-a-vis Falcon for one. Daniel's Titan Chess is so embarrassingly terrible, I stopped perusing its Rules and let time run out at recent GC game. I actually joined their potluck tournament, and was subjected to Titan (follow-up critique there later) because my name alone was mentioned for invitee and politely accepted. How to continue constructive discussion of what GM and World Champion Emanuel Lasker calls ''Reform in Chess'' in article 90 years ago? Sometimes one piece makes all the difference. In fact, usually so, Chess being so nuanced. When they add Modern Queen (RB) around 1500, somehow Centaur(BN) or Champion(RN) just would not have done. Those two were named by Carrera 100 years later, but surely mediaeval ingenuity could conceive them and rejected them, in favour of our Queen. Now Pritchard says in 'ECV' Intro that OrthoChess with (RN) might have worked just as well. Most would disagree, so indeed there are schools of thought, and the Queen won out, becoming essential. Likewise, used in one or two Problems in obscure publication in 1970's, Bison (leaper 1,3 plus 2,3) is so inherently flawed, ruining Knights and Pawns, as never to have been put into a CV. Then Falcon Chess, seeing some potential, in December 1992 reduces the same-destination theoretical construct to practice in perfected form, no longer the ridiculous problem-theme leaper. Please remember the Patent started with Inventor's notebook, each page cosigned from 1992. Are we to continue to be lampooned for taking steps nearly 20 years ago? It just shows the widespread ignorance of those belligerent opponents of intellectual property protection. Actually, the first precedent for Falcon, co-equal with Bishop, Knight, and Rook, exists long ago in mediaeval German Gala -- for another Comment. // Now most Patents are not complex Rube Goldberg contrivances (see cartoons), but slight key alterations of prior art with inventiveness. An important field will have Patents themselves not that different from one another. The only difference might be in molarity or degree of heating or cooling or one or two genes varying in biochemistry.

💡📝George Duke wrote on Fri, Jun 27, 2008 07:48 PM UTC:
Editor Quintanilla tags an 'Excellent' on Falcon in 2007, after Jeremy Good asked, because of both having played it. Thanks, Tony. Suppose even Editor Aronson refused to Rate Falcon on Jeremy Good's request, after Aronson calls Falcon *COMPLEMENT* of Rook, Knight, and Bishop in Complete Permutation Chess. That's okay, because Peter Aronson himself has not received due for CPC yet either. Incredible that there could be a mathematical complement, carrying characteristics of all of them! (We have to be cheerleaders without Good anymore) The problem comes from improper insruction of OrthoChess. Kids are not taught that Rook, Knight, and Bishop mutually complement each other. What does such mathematical concept mean here? Briefly, mutually exclusive squares, mutually interacting different moves, and completion of the field. Yet revolt against existence of that attribute is understandable when people and players have stake in hiding the underlying coherence. The reason arises from Chess' not being pure Science but also Art, Sport, and Life pastime, including all the material aspect. When I personally handed Yasser Seirawan Falcon material October 1998 at Denver national championship, I saw looks after some GMs looked it over of bemusement and scepticism, but none of the selfish scorn to be read intuitively across these impersonal electronics. I wonder what Seraiwan thinks today about Chess reform: don't put much stock in Seraiwan Chess itself, about which they are not really serious.

💡📝George Duke wrote on Fri, Jun 27, 2008 08:29 PM UTC:
Most Falcon Chess arrays protect all Pawns. We thought back in 2000 or 2001 that surely by 2008, we would have constructive feedback whether to diverge from natural-seeming RNBFQKFBNR, unusual for unprotected Pawns. With departure of Abdul-Rahman Sibahi and Jeremy Good, those ruminations are at standstill. Anyone seeing the need for essentially one Chess, not a wide variety, and the natural evolution of Falcon from RNB basis, is welcome to get emails through Game Courier to inquire. Just post a Falcon Preset sometime and we will watch to accept it. So-called royalties would be out of the question until there is fee membership or other material for sale. My partners told me to add the last part, more or less.

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