Check out Atomic Chess, our featured variant for November, 2024.

Enter Your Reply

The Comment You're Replying To
Joe Joyce wrote on Sat, Aug 25, 2012 10:16 PM UTC:
HG, Jeremy, am I wrong in thinking you are both arguing from a similar
point of view? Believe me, I am sorry I cannot come up with statistics to
demonstrate my points. But are statistics the only thing you will accept as
evidence? Grin, if so, we will probably have a bit of a wait before
"proof" comes in. [If anyone would like to "help" me run one of HG's
programs (aka: basically do it for me - I am no longer any good at that
sort of thing and never programmed) please contact me. ;-) No, I'm not
expecting to hear from anyone!] 

I will say that 10 meters is far less important at the beginning of the 10k
race than it is at the end. One of the features of Chief is that it is
deliberately made to slow down the initial combat by a turn or three. In
that sense, white is "merely catching up to black in the race" - that is,
coming close enough to black to press a decent attack. It does take a few
turns to put together a decent attack. And that's why I say there is no
first turn advantage, because you cannot press home any attack quickly. You
literally have to marshall your forces first. Is there a first move
advantage in wargames? As chess pushes toward wargames, I think you'd have
to expect changes in behavior.

Jeremy, we need to define terms so I'm not talking past you. I see the
set-up as a general condition of the game, in the sense that all the setups
in the Chief series [but not necessarily the Warlord series, because some
of those setups are very close together - A Clash of Arms and Civil War,
for example, might very well show a first-turn advantage] are made to
prevent rapid and effective initial attacks. FIDE thrives on rapid and
effective early attacks until you get to the high levels. And then it
thrives even more on early and rapid threats. The design of Chief includes
an organization/rally phase in the very beginning, where you order and
advance your army to contact. 

Here, HG is where I see the effect of promotion. In running through game
situations in my head, it is clear that promotion would change Chief, and
my claim of no first move advantage is very suspect. Because obviously, the
2 turn move advantage I give white does cause black to give up a little
territory, and if promotion occurs, white clearly has a small advantage,
because they go 5 squares to promote, and black goes 7. In Chief, that 2
square difference means not only do commoners have farther to go, the
Chiefs must also advance one extra time to allow movement, to match the
free move white got. [However, grin, I would like to see some statistical
proof that a 2 move advantage actually exists for white in Chief. Just
because I can see it and agree with you doesn't mean it exists, right? ;)
]

Edit Form
Conduct Guidelines
This is a Chess variants website, not a general forum.
Please limit your comments to Chess variants or the operation of this site.
Keep this website a safe space for Chess variant hobbyists of all stripes.
Because we want people to feel comfortable here no matter what their political or religious beliefs might be, we ask you to avoid discussing politics, religion, or other controversial subjects here. No matter how passionately you feel about any of these subjects, just take it someplace else.
Avoid Inflammatory Comments
If you are feeling anger, keep it to yourself until you calm down. Avoid insulting, blaming, or attacking someone you are angry with. Focus criticisms on ideas rather than people, and understand that criticisms of your ideas are not personal attacks and do not justify an inflammatory response.
Quick Markdown Guide

By default, new comments may be entered as Markdown, simple markup syntax designed to be readable and not look like markup. Comments stored as Markdown will be converted to HTML by Parsedown before displaying them. This follows the Github Flavored Markdown Spec with support for Markdown Extra. For a good overview of Markdown in general, check out the Markdown Guide. Here is a quick comparison of some commonly used Markdown with the rendered result:

Top level header: <H1>

Block quote

Second paragraph in block quote

First Paragraph of response. Italics, bold, and bold italics.

Second Paragraph after blank line. Here is some HTML code mixed in with the Markdown, and here is the same <U>HTML code</U> enclosed by backticks.

Secondary Header: <H2>

  • Unordered list item
  • Second unordered list item
  • New unordered list
    • Nested list item

Third Level header <H3>

  1. An ordered list item.
  2. A second ordered list item with the same number.
  3. A third ordered list item.
Here is some preformatted text.
  This line begins with some indentation.
    This begins with even more indentation.
And this line has no indentation.

Alt text for a graphic image

A definition list
A list of terms, each with one or more definitions following it.
An HTML construct using the tags <DL>, <DT> and <DD>.
A term
Its definition after a colon.
A second definition.
A third definition.
Another term following a blank line
The definition of that term.